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From: Lance (Social Comentary, Conversations and Observations)
Remote Name: 66.82.48.1
Date: 15 Dec 2003
Time: 22:41:35
Boeing Aerospace Worker, and remember 30,000 have lost their jobs so this is a huge issue in America and with the 757 Air Tanker Deal and the Investigations from the DOD, etc. their hopes of getting back to work are bleek. There was a strike and a recession and a scandel, bummer. He writes: -------- Thank you for the information. I will study these and give you my comment at a later date. I can say that corporations like Wal-Mart make millions every year, shouldn't their workers make a living wage? And should Wal-Mart stop unions from forming? There would be no Unions if our companies treated people with respect and gave them a fair piece of the pie instead of treating them as a throw-away piece of junk. Thanks again for your view and you will hear from me at a later date. And I should say I'm far from being liberal. ------------- Here is my comments taken from the other side of the fence and playing devil's advocate, actually I can argue either side with much vigor. After all it was once said what is good for GM is good for America. And when it was said fw could disagree on either side of the fense. Here is my response from a Friedman Economic. Or Friedrich Winslow Taylor point of view on unions and productivity. ------------------ Dear Sir, No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and telling them they must work at Wal-Mart they do so of their own free choosing like at many other large companies such as Enterprise Rent-a-Car, Starbucks, FedEx. ---- If the people working at Wal-Mart wish to start a union they can. But I do not believe union forming people should go onto Wal-Mart's property and coerce the employees on company time to start a union. And since Wal-Mart is 24 hours they have the right to escort non-customers off the property for loitering. Why should people who wish to disrupt the system be allowed to do at the companies own time that they are paying for? I cannot even believe that Plato would go for that, even Jefferson would not agree that is fair. In franchising there are even laws against disrupting the system. Yet unions with their political might, PACs and bullying some how think this is alright? ------ I disagree there would be unions anyway, it is like the Mafia or mob. It is like the Taliban or terrorists. Only it is legal for some reason. I have watched them form groups to try to get more, that is human nature, the problem is to build a team you have to pick an enemy as do all groups of mankind, churches pick evil, Democrats pick Republicans, Cops pick robbers, Armies pick enemies, Unions pick companies. But the problem is the company is the hand that feeds them or should I say us in the union strikes in CA, which ruined many people's thanks giving dinner, Thanks for nothing. Great so the unions want to hurt the companies so bad they try to destroy the company to get their way. Who does this help? It helps China to build aircraft wings doesn't it? It helps Super Wal-Mart when unions attack the grocery stores doesn't it. It helps non-union carriers when teamsters attack the distribution system delivering goods thus helps non-union companies. Unions are parasites on the Friedman Economic System, they are thugs who could careless about safety of our country, the future of our economy, the rest of the people in America. Remember only 14% of the people work union. If they get more, we all pay more at the pump, store, for garbage, energy, entertainment, air travel, services, etc. Why should 14% of the people get more and the 86% have to pay more since the unions increase the costs for regular people. People like me? I think that sucks. And for the unions to attack the distribution system or America's greatest companies is no different than the terrorists attacking the trade towers to destroy our incredible financial infrastructure. What is the difference? 3000 people died that is the only difference because the long term out comes is exactly the same for the rest of America. ---- Unions often destroy all productivity and they destroy the incentive to work, and often workers who are union could care less if the company succeeds and even cause it to fail. I have seen enough manufacturing cities economically destroyed from unions, go read "Collision Course". ---- Unions have destroyed trucking companies, airlines, auto manufacturing companies, grocery stores, textile plants and on and on. Every day another one bites the dust. Soon, aircraft, trucks, cars, ships and even the union controlled railroad will all run without people, why? Because the cost and lack of productivity has fueled the R and D in robotics to replace their ass. And why not, why should a small group of people hold the rest of this country for ransom? ----- The port workers wanted to make more money and refute the needs for cargo container automation to help shield us from terrorism stuff entering our country, but the $120,000 per year clip board holders caused over 45 billion dollars in cost to the economy during their strike, whose team are these guys on anyway? Why not pay me to hold a clip board for $120,000, hell I could live pretty well on that amount of money and would not have to work harder than the Wal-Mart greeter? Are you trying to tell me that the Wal-Mart greeter deserves $120K per year? ---- For god's sake with an email address from Boeing and the pay they give you guys there, I could not believe that everyone went on strike. And even the threat of a strike caused 321 orders to Airbus, then the self fulfilling prophesy, everyone...well 30,000 of you were no longer needed. See ya. Boeing moved to Chicago due to the screwed up labor laws in The Socialist state of Washington. ----- Now you are angry that you are out of work, well many cities are out of work all over the place and it sucks, but as America is trying to rebuild the unions continue to attack and therefore the US companies are forced to send your job somewhere else. Eventually all those parts and aircraft will be made in other places, all because of the unions and over regulation. The unions cause regulations when they get mad for unneeded safety items which slow productivity to the point the companies cannot compete anymore and thus are forced to downsize? Obviously these union bosses if they had half a brain could see the whole picture. Now they have you up in a tizzy about Wal-Mart? What did Wal-Mart ever do to you? People shop there, they like it, it works and people choose to vote with their time and dollar so it works out fine. The only problem now is that the over regulation, taxes and unions are causing manufacturing jobs to leave the country. If you make it easier on business and attack less you will find that your job suddenly reappears. If Dean were to get elected there would be a short term gain for the unions and then collapse of America during or right after his watch, the unions would live well, every one else would go to hell and you say it would be swell? Thanks a lot. I am an American too you know. I have to work harder than everyone else because I am the guy who built the company, runs the company and now the unions want to take it over? ---- Well then buy it from me and you can run it any way you wish and even into the ground. But chances are when you own the company you will be looking to work harder and make more money to grow the business, pay yourself more and then it just might work. Like the Sierra Club, you like the forest that much, then buy it and do whatever you wish with it. ---- You cannot have your cake and eat it too, while the rest of America suffers. You (the Union)want more money go buy the company and then you do what ever you wish. As far as the company spitting you out after you have attained and engineering degree, ever think that the vote for the strike was wrong as America was facing a recession? Small businesses which employ 2/3 of our population having a tough time, people being laid off and companies going out of business. But oh no, Boeing employees want a raise, grocery store employees want $100 per month more for health benefits, transit workers want 2 hours less per week and an extra sick day and $4 per hour more? Wait a minute the rest of America is tightening their belts but these strikers want more? Show me fair. If you scream the socialist liberal mantra, then you deserve the same amount as the kid who works for Lowe's and we will all be standing in line for potatoes? No thanks to unions during this holiday season. -------------------------- So those are my comments from the other side of the fence and realize I have had this conversation from other laid off aerospace workers too. Another in Wichita. http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0703/00000044.htm and http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0703/0000002b.htm and http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0703/0000002c.htm and http://www.parthe.net/_cwg1003/00000055.htm This one discussed tonight is from Seattle Area. I think we can see where this is going and it is important to not mix apples and organges especially since many of the stocking clerks at Wal-Mart are probably not qualified to build 747's. And comments on unions or Aviation http://www.Jetwashguys.com I would be interested in them. Here is some more reading material on this subject. http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0803/0000004a.htm and http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0803/0000004d.htm and http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0803/00000067.htm and http://www.parthe.net/_cwg0803/0000006c.htm and if you have something worthy on this subject email me ASAP, since this is my new subject matter of coffee shop discussions across America and the world. Lance@carwashguys.com
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